Marketing Insights Podcast

May 16, 2023

Transcript: 

Shane Hunt:

Hello everyone, and welcome to this edition of the Marketing Insights podcast. I'm Shane Hunt, Dean of the College of Business, and Michael C Rutgers Professor of Marketing at Idaho State University. And I'm thrilled this episode to be joined by my friend and truly one of the best marketers in America, Steve Divorce. Steve, welcome to the show.

Steve Devore:

Thank you, sir. It's good to be here, man. I'm excited about it.

Shane Hunt:

So Steve has done some amazing things and just want to start by Steve talking about this. You hold a number of different roles and you touched some of the coolest stuff that's going on in marketing right now in 2023. Tell us a little bit about what you do and kind of your path to that.

Steve Devore:

Yeah, so I've spent almost 25 years on the agency side from really the time that I graduated until now, so it's really all I know. But it's a pretty fascinating space as you think about how it's evolved over the last two plus decades. I've been very fortunate to get to work with some amazing brands, Procter and Gamble and PepsiCo and Campbells and ConAgra, Anheuser Busch. I think what's really interesting about all of those brands is as established as they are, each of them realize that in this time where there's so many different inputs and outputs and things that affect what's going on that we're kind of having to start from scratch. It feels like almost every day, in thinking about how the consumer's behavior is adjusting to those things.

The roles that I play at the agency, I primarily get to interface with our clients a lot, so I'm out in the market and talking to them about the problems that they're faced with in the changing marketplace and obviously the acceleration of digital and that type of thing. The great thing at the end of the day is as you define what our job is, how do you convince people to buy more stuff? And I think that will always be an objective. So I think we'll always have a place in that kind of ecosystem to help our clients do that.

Shane Hunt:

Steve, and you and I have talked about this off air, it's amazing how much everything is changing so rapidly. So the last episode that I recorded with this was with the chief marketing officer for Zelle, just talking about a number of different things. I mean everything from artificial intelligence, to the inflationary pressures that we're seeing right now in the economy, to just brands trying to connect with consumers in different ways. What are you seeing as the biggest changes or trends right now in that industry?

Steve Devore:

Yeah, I'd say the two things that dominate my day, every day, are data and media. We primarily work with brands in the retail space, whether that be physical brick and mortar or what we call the digital shelf, which is retailer.com or selling products through social commerce, things of that nature. And those two things continue to be the driver of how our clients go to market. I think from a data perspective, it's things like dynamic creative. So how do we customize, copy and offers based on a consumer's previous shopping history? The ability to get incredibly granular on the type of messaging that we're putting in front of a shopper based on things that they've responded to in the past, based on algorithms or things that we'll think they'll respond to in the future. You need data to do that. I think the thing right now that's interesting is there is no shortage of data. It's how we're actually being able to synthesize that and automate a lot of it.

So a lot of it is still people actually logging things into a spreadsheet. And the more we can get these data streams to cross over, the more customized we can start to make these offers and pieces of communication to shoppers that are more relevant. Some people think about it as privacy and other people think of it as, "Bring me the offers that are only relevant to me." That's really what we're trying to use data streams for. I think, in addition to that, it's also about every marketer, right now, is facing pressure to justify their marketing spin. It is a battle for dollars, whether you're talking about above the line, media and television and traditional avenues like that, or below the line, which is more where my space is in shopper and digital and social and things of that nature. Everybody is trying to make sure that every taller spins like two.

Shane Hunt:

Don't you think, Steve, don't you think right now the pressure on that ... When I talk to companies, the pressure on that today's more than any time that I've ever seen in my career. Are you seeing that same thing?

Steve Devore:

There's no doubt because the last decade has scrubbed marketing budgets considerably. And so the competition is not just within agencies like ours. It's also within CPG companies as they've got different stakeholders who control different budget streams and they're all trying to make sure that the things that they have influence are actually have the dollars to go support it. So to find out data that actually says, not just awareness, awareness is not really the thing anymore. Now it is what is that influence that you had on someone buying something or not buying it? And so to be able to take data and tell a more comprehensive story, not just even about campaigns, but all the way down to the tactic level, down to the retailer level. Where did someone actually have an interface with this medium and did it impact them and essentially make them buy something. So I think that's an important piece.

I also think getting the digital shelf right. What [inaudible 00:06:21] walmart.com, Amazon, kroger.com, et cetera, getting that right has become such a science. It used to just be getting your products in distribution and now it searches everything. If you're not in the first ... It's really the above the fold type mentality, even from a digital standpoint. If you're not in those initial returned search results, then you're probably not going to get included on the list. And especially now if you think about so much of shopping has evolved to that click and collect or Instacart or curbside pickup. Once you make it on the list, you're in a pretty good spot because then you start back with the list that you had before and to be able to be on that list, you're not having to convince anybody to get on it, then you just need to stay on it.

Now, if you didn't make that list, it becomes infinitely harder to get on there because it's not like you're walking a physical store and I have an end cap feature that grabs my attention, gives me a great deal, gives me an exclusive offer that, drives that awareness and conversion. So you have to work so much harder in the digital space to make sure you're winning that search result.

Shane Hunt:

What do you think, Steve what do think is one of the biggest mistakes you see people making in that space, just in general? Brands or things that you're like, "Boy, I see this a lot, and that's taking you down a bad path?"

Steve Devore:

That's a great question. Let me think about that for a second.

Shane Hunt:

Because I do think that's one of the things that you see. And I think one of the ones you touched on, the reason I asked that is, I've talked to several companies lately that I think their biggest challenge is something you said, which is they have acquired a massive amount of data. However, what they are utilizing that data for, I think that is something that I see a lot of medium-sized businesses especially, they capture all this data, but then they're not really utilizing it to get closer to their customer. They're not utilizing it to be better or more efficient and from a branding standpoint. That kind of sparked my mind when you said that.

Steve Devore:

Yeah, I think there is no shortage of data that CPG companies have. Like you said, it's like what are we able to do with it? It's why that automation piece is so important. Excuse me. I think when it comes to digital shelf, a lot of people ... I think it goes back to what I was saying about search. I think a lot of people don't put ... There's a lot of focus on what we call the PTP, the page that you land on when you go to a retailer's website. And there's a lot of emphasis on making sure you've got the right product, you've got the right keywords and all that's really important for organic search. But when it comes to paid search and making sure that you're adjusting your search terms.

And sometimes, every day, I mean we've got a partner called Analytic Index, and one of the things that they can do is tell you what are those search terms that are being hot as of the moment. They're running these scripts multiple times a day and what this category, this search term may have been important today, there may have been something happening, whether it be current event, price elasticity, the weather, that literally changed what someone was searching for today. And those brands that have captured those keywords are the ones that are going to win at digital shelf, no matter how good your A+ content is on your PDP pages.

Shane Hunt:

No. Steve, that's amazing. I love that insight. I'm going to ask the last question. My last question that I always ask when we talk to executives on the program is what advice would you have for current students who want to be in marketing, who want to be chief marketing officer, CEOs? What advice do you have for them? And before we do that, I just want to introduce this by saying we've had lots of great executives on the podcast. And a lot of students who listen to this use our Principles of Marketing textbook published by McGraw Hill. The biggest compliment I can give to Steve is when we did our very first book a decade ago, the first executive perspective, the first person providing insights to marketing students was Steve. And so I'm very excited to ask him that question today because truly, I hope you listen to his advice. And the thing that makes him unique is not only one of the best marketers in America, but also one of the best human beings. So with that buildup, Steve, with that intro, no pressure.

Steve Devore:

I don't think I can follow that, honestly. That's-

Shane Hunt:

What advice.

Steve Devore:

... that's nearly the nicest thing anyone's ever said. I will replay that back to me as I enter any room.

Shane Hunt:

Just play that on the loop, just play that for your family. But I want them to know that because I think that's something we talk a lot on the podcast for students to try to find people through internships and through opportunities and through mentoring like yourself, and no one better on that than Steve. So Steve, with that, what advice would you have for students listening to this as they launched their careers?

Steve Devore:

Yeah, it's a great question. It's what I get from students a lot because one of the things I love doing, as you know, is talking to university students. To me, the single most important thing you can have as someone you're trying to get a job or you're trying to excel in your career in this space is you've just got to have the DNA of someone who's curious. And I used this example before and I think it really kind of captures what agencies and brands are looking for. One of the questions I always like to ask in an interview setting is, what's a brand that you really admire? That you're jealous of? That you wish you either worked for, were a part of building? What is that brand? 90% of the people that you ask that to college students say the most obvious things. I mean, it's whatever the catchy brand of the moment is or whatever the brand that's got cache.

What I want is the person to say, "Just down the road in Frisco, Texas, there's this food hall. And on the third floor, there's a dumpling stall and everything that they do is deliberate. From the way that they greet you, to their menu, to the chopsticks, to their packaging. Everything is deliberate about creating a brand." That's the person I want to hire because that tells me they've got their head on a swivel. They're just naturally curious and inquisitive, and they just love to take on information and they're thinking about it constantly. That's somebody that I can teach. You want teachable. You don't want the person who feels like they've done the coursework and they've done their internships and they've kind of got it all figured out. You really want someone that is just asking questions and wants to dig in. Because I'll tell you, even myself, at 46 years old, and I know you're thinking there's no way that guy's 46, right?

Shane Hunt:

Youthful 46, Steve.

Steve Devore:

Very youthful 46.

Shane Hunt:

Very youthful.

Steve Devore:

Minus my hairline. But the thing that I will say is I've had to be very deliberate about those things. I talked a lot about data, retailer media, those types of things. Like those weren't things 10 years ago. So I've had to really study, really read, talk to people who are experts in the field and hear it multiple times to be able to have a point of view and talk about it, semi intelligently, with our clients. And I think that is the same thing that a student has to understand is when they go work for someone, they're starting a new level of education. Because no matter what agency you can go to, everyone does it a little bit different. Everyone has their own way and methods of working, and you have to start to learn those. But then you also have to do the things that are outside, the things that are out on the peripheral. You've got to start to train yourself and to be interested and to get excited about these things.

Because I look at our space and in the next five to 10 years, it's likely we're going to be more a digital media company than we are shopper marketing agency. I mean, five years ago it was probably 10% on what we do. Now it's probably two thirds of what we do now. We've got to keep layering on that and adding that point of differentiation with the message, with the retailer relationships and all of those things, but if you don't understand digital media right now in our space and really any agency space, you're going to get left behind. And obviously not understanding how deep a lot of universities go into this type of thing, probably I can just about guarantee they probably don't go deep enough to what's going to be expected at an agency or a client level. So you've got to supplement that learning with your own interest,

Shane Hunt:

Yeah. And I think supplementing learning with your own interest at every stage of your career, Steve, that is such great advice and everything on there. And I would encourage students, if you get a chance to work for a person like Steve Devore, you should take that. Steve, thank you for joining us on the podcast today and for all your insights.

Steve Devore:

Thank you, sir. Really appreciate it. Great to see you.

Shane Hunt:

Thank you all. Great to see. Thank you all for listening to this edition of the Marketing Insights podcast. I'm Shane Hunt. Look forward to visiting next time. Have a great day.